As club fitters, you have to find the balance between measurable results and what the customer THINKS is happening. And the opposite is true as the speed drops. I bent them 4 degrees strong to keep my flight down as I hit moon balls with my X700 shafts hardstepped X3 ", Ping G400 Testing G410. On the opposite and gapping from AW to 9i is very wide about 16 yards about between clubs. Not fact but I do think more offset makes it easier to draw the ball. St Louis, MO. The one with a ballflight too high, is delivering the clubhead Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. I showed him all the stats on the monitor and he was in agreement but when it came to buying the actual driver he insisted on buying the 9.5 head with the TP after all the work on the launch monitor. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. Todays golf ball travels farther than ever before and I dont see any need to jack up the short iron lofts. The industry is run by marketing divisions, who are responsible for stronger lofted irons, in the mistaken belief that lower loft equals more distance. Watch this great video here if you are curious on how to bend the lie angle of a club using a loft/lie machine: Impact tape is a tape that a club fitter places on the face of the golf club that creates marks of where the golfer struck the ball on the clubface. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. I reckon for every 1 degree off it takes about 250 off the spin. Club design of a particular club can be a factor also. The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. Some get more spin, some less. I've bent tons of clubs. Callaway MD 3 48 bent to 50 KBS 610 S+ Played a mp30 2i for most of the year as a gap from my 3i to my 3 wood. Secondly, it also takes absolutely no athletic ability to learn how to set up in the proper posture to make a sound golf swing possible. examples, keep you head down, hit down on the ball, you gotta swing inside out. Bending Golf Clubs: 5 Facts & Fallacies if we move from a "high launch" to a Low launch shaft, who reduce loft by 2* we also lost 2* bounce. Clubs are mass-produced with certain manufacturing variances in every factory. The two things are diametrically opposed in meaning of course. Manage your expectations, dont expect to hit every shot close, Make smarter club choices based off the above, Be sensible: The middle of the green is a GREAT place to be, The average golfer will get up and down from a bunker, 1 out of 5 times, The average golfer manages to get up and down around 1 in 3 times, Short game shots from the fairway have the highest success rate. Compare that with 49-year-old Atwal, with a best of 49th place since 2021 and an average first-round placing of around 120th for his three starts in 2023, and Scott Brown, admittedly a former winner here, but now 719th in the world and who has, since September, withdrawn twice during tournaments, and missed his last two cuts (Pebble and Honda) ranking 99th and 136th for his first round he certainly looks wrong in every way. with more loft than its designed for, so he cant go wrong by bending heads stronger. All rights reserved. The Ever Changing Bag! Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. I have been reading that the more offset you add it will end up more of a hook shot. Ok thats good to know, the longest iron I carry in the bag is a 6 iron so it wont make that much of a difference then in the long irons. Maybe manufacturers will take note (I doubt it, but keep trying. Your golf ball starts off towards the left of your target (right for lefties). But they will still land on the green as soft as an older set of irons (if not softer). Thanks for your advice, its been helpful. In a typical golf set, loft increases as shaft length decreases. Iwas wondering if I could bend my 712 AP2 irons strong and not see any changes in the irons. If you think about it, a flatter lie would be toe down for your swing. sorry, didnt mean increase loft. Espana. Loft and lie changes are more or less permanent. Is that ok? About time someone who knows what theyre talking about said what the the real deal is with loft and modern clubs. Powered by Invision Community. So, I am now waiting for a major brand to market and advertise that their new, weaker lofts will add distance for most golfers. What amazes me the most is how many golfers will continually spend thousands of dollars on golf equipment but never take the initiative to change those fundamental things that will help them really improve their skills and abilities. Since such a precise hit is needed to take advantage of the lower loft, the average distance each club hits the ball tends to converge at lower lofts for less-skilled players. TaylorMade M2 (2016) 9.5* (2* lower) HZRDUS T1100 75g 6.5 I am wanting to bend my 5-PW one degree stronger and my 4 irontwo degrees stronger to fit better with my wedges and hybrid golf club. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Think about how much this could help golfers from the rough as well. Much of Harrison Endycotts claims were covered in the2023 Players To Followlist, but the summary is worth repeating to justify his selection this week. With your height you obviously need to be fit properly. Upload or insert images from URL. If you want to simply hit the ball further, find an iron that launches really high and spins really low, you will knuckle ball the shot a long ways, but odds are you will not be able to control yardages or stop the ball under most conditions. If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. It would decrease the bounce on each club, not a good idea, as well as it would cause the ball to go farther. This will change the trajectory of the ball, and can potentially cause misdirected shots. As long as the spin rate is acceptable, the new irons, because of their lower center of gravity, are going to produce more speed off the face (due to the lower loft and lower COG) and more distance. What if I get those numbers with a 7-iron, or a 5-iron? - Chick Evans, Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons, Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper, I will add a little to what was posted above. The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. I was thinking of bending my irons 3 degrees stronger as my ball flights were too high, but then there would be a big gap to fill between the pitching wedge and the gap wedge, and potentially more side effects of bending the clubs then. How to bend your clubs | Mitchell Golf - YouTube In fact, a sound, fundamental hold on the club is the first step in setting up for a technically sound golf swing. Just about every club that leaves the factory won't be 100% spot on for loft, manufacturing tolerances are going to throw that out. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). So it doesnt matter to me what loft a golfers 6 iron is, as long as that loft allows a golfer to launch and spin the ball in a way thats ideal for their swing. This happens probably most frequently with wedges, when a person wants to play 3 instead of 4 wedges for example. 10.5 set at small - ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! We'll walk you through the process and offer some simple tips and trick. Adams A12 19 - Fuji HB 80X, PXG 0311X 4 - HZRDUS Red 105 X Long story short, I'm about to have the 5,6,7,8 iron bent 2 degrees weaker, 9 iron 1 degree weaker, and AW 1 degree stronger. some strong lofts there, i thought you had blade type irons so, which have weaker lofts? The 2-degree limit is only recommended when changing the lofts on irons due to the potential effect such bends will have on the sole angle of the club. Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights, Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong. May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. Its not about research or information, its about ego and emotion. My advice would be to start by making sure the lofts are set to manufacturers specs. What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover), Driver: Tour Edge EXS10.5, set 9.5;weights neutral ||FWs:CallaRogue4W + 7W, Hybrid: Calla Big Bertha OS4H at 22 ||Irons:Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW, Wedges*: Calla MD3:48MD4: 54, 58||Putter:Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. I have read that if you bend 1 degree strong you lower the bounce on the iron. 00bolt, May 18, 2017 in WRX Club Techs. But Im not sure whats being accomplished with weakening irons. Great article. If you change your AOA and go 2* steeper, both delivered loft and bounce is reduced by 2* Late to the party but I was just searching this topic and saw your post, I just bought an old set of mizuno's that are bent 2* strong for the exact same reason as you stated above. Never go more than 2 degrees when making adjustments. Yeah, you can bend them strong and not notice the difference in terms of look. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. I know for people with slower swing speeds these crazy lofted, ultimate SGI irons are perfect. If its putting or greenside scoring, spend your time working on those aspects instead of beating balls on the range. How Much Does 1 Degree of Loft Affect Distance? 50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*, Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck on tight fairways. Tour Preferred X or TP5x ball. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. Display as a link instead, Paste as plain text instead, is 2 degrees enough to mess up a club? 716 MB'S It sorts my gapping out perfectly as a result. Still many worries about bending lofts due to bounce changes, and many also thinkthat shafts can lift or lower ball flight by changing dynamic loft, but without anything happening to bounce, but that cant be prevented, bounce always follows loft no matter if loft was changed due to bending, angle of attack, or adifferent shaft, all 3 scenarios has the same changes. Bravo, As a club fitter who deals with players that purchase equipment based on what their ego tells them they need verses the facts this is a breath of fresh air! Best of luck.Chuck. Assuming you are not altering the trajectory due to the conditions. Thanks everybody for the help! If the launch conditions work, what matter the number on the club? And the grip should be light enough to allow supple movement in the wrists during the swing. Stronger iron lofts don't always create more distance - GolfWRX Your previous content has been restored. Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW That said, people will usually launch clubs higher with a longer shaft length as well, (mechanical advantage/physics) so again, it kind of goes hand in hand with the stronger lofts. Theyre selling the clubs by saying that you will hit them longer, yet like you said, many of those whod need the help arent really hitting at least the longer irons any longer. The GI/SGI clubs are basically directed to help players with lesser abilities to hit the golf ball, usually that also means lower swing speeds. pic.twitter.com/dNhfPEcR4F https://t.co/Talvwe7Kng. Great point I am a low ball hitter looking for more distance especially in my high irons. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. I did the math on these numbers years ago when I had an early release and wondering why I could not hit the irons very far. In 11 starts since gaining his place at the top level, the 26-year-old has made four cuts, including a first-time-out 12th at the Fortinet, 10th in Bermuda (led after a first round 62), 22nd at the American Express 7th after day one) and top-30 at the Plantation Course last week. The main reason it is done on GolfWRX is so people can brag how far they hit their irons, generally with a passive brag. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the c, Intrigued by your debate, I did a little virtual bending experiment with a Taylormade UDI in Photoshop. Will it affect offset? Your email address will not be published. Titleist AP3 3 iron 2 degrees strong AMT black stiff shaft | eBay Distance is fine, but I have an overly high flight in the wind. Due to how DeChambeau delivers the club, his 4-iron has a stated loft of 16 degrees; the stock Ping i230 comes in at 22.5 degrees. Thanks! I'm fascinated by your basis for changing the lofts? probably best to just change the shaft length), You stand tall over the golf ball when swinging, Your golf ball starts towards the right of your target (left for lefties), You hit the golf ball off the toe of the cub more often causing the clubface to open up and create push or slice. IG: golfer_scott Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 But if a high spin player gets a 15 launch and 6000 RPM with a 115 MPH ball speed with a 5-iron, then whats wrong with that? Not going to dig any more than normal. Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. What the heck are they were talking about? TM TPx. All rights reserved. Contact Us You can easily bend the lofts and lies to be progressively consistent from one club to the next with zero tolerance. Getting your first putt inside three feet will greatly improve your score. Hope this Helps! And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. Still, someone has to win, and, with such dead wood, punters might smile at this opportunity to nab the winner of an event returning to its status as an opposite event expect LIV to make an offer in 2024. December 27, 2014 in Club Making/Repair & DIY Projects. I knew that bounce and loft have a 1:1 ratio but never thought that changing lie angle would affect swingweight but it makes perfect sense. 1 for 1, loft for bounce. On GI long irons vs players irons have different width soles, are the effects of bounce differ between the two if the loft is a degree stronger? Or, is the bounce all the same? The decision wasn't about distance it was about gapping. Custom Edel E-3 Putter, More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. We dont stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.. Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". You cannot paste images directly. From my research into various golfer communities, it is highly likely that if you are reading this blog post you probably are playing to somewhere between a 5 and 16 handicap. Explaining The Meaning of Loft Angle in Golf Clubs - LiveAbout Odyssey 2-ball Pro-Type milled face putter. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. But i am talking more along the lines of the bounce, leading edge, etc. 716 MB'S. It just depends. March 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM You can also bend the angles to a consistent specification precisely fit for any golfer. I found it astonishing that by moving my hands that much forward at impact gain nearly 30 yards. Even with limitations, many of todays metal woods are indeed bendable, especially stainless-steel heads. Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW In addition, once a club is bent to a given specification, it will stay there until changed by an outside force of either bending again or striking a hard object. It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. Changing the lie angle of a club can help golfers more consistently hit shots off of the center of the clubface. I just purchased a new set of 716MB irons. 2 degrees upright - Club Fitting - Team Titleist If the hosel design and manufacturing processes allow it, the lie of an iron can be bent 3-4 degrees or more with no compromise to the integrity of the head. Well driving iron to be exact. "I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." Bomb and gouge. Thanks for everybody for your help! You must log in or register to reply here. Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, Tour Blue 85 X, 44" -or- Cobra Fly-Z+, Phenom NL 60 X, 44.5", 3w:King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X When I was fitted for my 714 AP-2's it was the Titleist fitter who suggested we go 1 degree strong, but it take very little divot. This is a dumb question but were you fit for them? Generall, Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. Perhaps the lighter weight is good, but how many people fit into these longer lengths? In the five starts mentioned above, the St. Simons resident has some impressive first round finishes. The average golfer hits 48 percent of fairways. Good point. Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong - Team Titleist 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. "so, any advice, I keep air mailing greens with my PW from 140, this is really hurting my score. Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX" I believe that you can't really bend your irons too much but to accommodate I am thinking of bending my AP2s 1 degree stronger and AP3s 1 degree weaker so that I have better gaping. KBS even notes it in the swing speed recommendations for their different model shafts, as their very lightweight steel shafts are about a full flex softer frequency than the standard weight counterpart. I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. More photos from the event here. There you can see exactly what it takes to be an average amateur golfer. The bounce on the 3-iron is already 0 degrees, so will bending the club for a stronger loft make the bounce go negative? From my observation of thousands of golfers of all skill levels, far too many are deficient in the fundamentals, starting with the grip, and then to the set-up and only then to the swing motion. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65xStrong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400. I am glad you mentioned shaft length, static lengths for GI clubs, how it impacts flight, etc. Generally though as you decrease theloft of a club by one degree, you reduce its bounce a degree at the same time and if you increase the loft by one degree you increase the bounce by a degree. In turn creating around 12 more yds. And yes it is common to not have an iron longer than 6 or 5 for some of these guys because they carry them all the same distance, and then hybrids come into play. A 4 iron only has 1 degree of bounce standard so will I have negative bounce when bent two degrees strong? 4-AW with juiced lofts is the same set as an old 3-PW that would probably be 22*-48*. How accurate are the loft and lie readings of clubs straight from the manufacturer? Here are some of the facts, and fallacies, about club adjustment. You might as well get a distance gap before bending. JavaScript is disabled. Feel free to browse around and see if anything catches your eye! The bounce will be irrelevant to begin with in that case anyway. Will I be digging too much? 1 is somewhere between somewhat important to very important, then the next question has to be. If you really want to improve your golf, you must define where you are losing the most strokes and start there. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! What still kills me are the guys coming in and demanding a lower lofted driver thinking it will give them more distance. Display as a link instead, Adjusting irons loft for distance - MyGolfSpy Forum Would bending it serve the same result? I always found it a bit strange that I could be 20-40 yards ahead of some friends yet hit the same distance with mid to short irons. With added ball speed comes more launch. Does that create the maximum distance for that ball speed? Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. Another point regarding GI/SGI clubs that I would love to see a fitter touch on is shaft length. My name is Justin and I am a PGA Golf Professional. Paste as plain text instead, people hit it further because of stronger lofts is such a wifes tale. TaylorMade Rsi TP 3-PW (1.5* strong) NS-Pro MOdus 3 tour130 X Like most things in life, the real answer is it all depends, golf is probably the only sport where they use generalization to describe something that is quite complicated. Military. I teach golf on the Eastern side of Michigan where I am the Director of Instruction for three golf courses. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. ENTER NOW! So what makes 15-16 and 6000 RPM ideal? Hi everyone, sorry for the slow reply! Add in the added forgiveness of modern irons, and you have a winning combination. 2. Bending lofts to 2 degrees stronger - WRX Club Techs - GolfWRX My 54 wedge has 12 of bounce and the divots I take with it are just a big as all the rest. The loft difference in the AP2 7 iron and AP3 6 iron is 6 degrees apart. No matter what your skill level, you will not optimize your performance with outdated or ill-fitted golf clubs. You must log in or register to reply here. Sure, the top few are valid members of the PGA Tour, all with their legitimate claims in this lowly class, but we then have the likes of Chad Campbell (unranked after not being seen for almost three years) and Frank Lickliter (now outside the world top 3000) bringing up a rear lacks depth. A flat lie angle is simply when the heel of the golf club is bent so it is higher than the toe. If this continues well end up with 25* 7 irons and carry 6 or 7 gap wedges. Show Your True Colors With Mitchell Golfs Custom Color Program. Oh, and Jason Day is reputed to have bent some of his irons strong and I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with ego. When you make the club loft stronger you decrease loft, when you make it weaker you increase the loft. 1001 Industrial Blvd Seriously. We're not robotic enough to predict that exactly 3 or 4 degrees is the correct gap empirically. Yes, the T200 can be bent 2 degrees flat and beyond 2 degrees upright Titleist manufactures heads 2 degrees upright which can be bent up to a further 2 degrees i.e up to 4 degrees from standard Please sign in to comment TUser January 21, 2020 at 08:09 AM Along the same lines, I got my new T200 irons late last year. traditional lofts ftw (let the technology be what determines added length/distance, not loft changes). I tried it today but I can still hit my 6i farther than my 64 degree lw. OK, quick question. Check out our video: how-to bend your clubs on a Mitchell Golf Angle Machine:Get Bending! Plenty have broken their duck here, and now the Puerto Rico curse has been resigned to history lets get with a couple of players who have their best days in front of them. Terms & Conditions Titleist 620 MB 5-9 Oban CT 125 But when I show them the results on golf radar, which can be as much as 5-to-10 yards more carry distance, they start to get it. I draw the ball naturally so I dont want too much offset on the clubs, I think it will be easier if I just go and get some wedges to sort out the gapping issue. There is no worry about bending a club that was bent last year or last week. Pros and cons? Say you have a modern set that is 3-PW, 19*-45*. :-). i dont need that. weight removed), Ball:1. When my first 'proper' set of clubs (MP30s) were done - at the same time as a Driver Shaft fitting - a couple were out considerably (the 6 iron had the loft of a 5!)! Everyone's comments are super helpful! I find Callaway irons have to much bounce to begin with esp. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . TaylorMade M1 15* Tensei CK Pro White 80X or The bend overlap in angle iron will be bigger so you need to allow for a 1/2 inch. Among full-swing clubs, drivers have the lowest degrees of loft (some pros use drivers with as little as 7 degrees of loft; most recreational golfers use drivers lofted at 9 to 14 degrees). The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work. Potentially, this would mean the toe digs in and your shots go right (right handed). I am not sure exactly what you are asking with the final 2 questions, are you asking should the 5 and 7 iron have the same launch conditions as the 6 iron, or would there be any issues if your 5 iron or the 7 iron launched like the ideal conditions for the 6 iron? LOWER COG IN NEW IRONS REQUIRES LESS LOFT A LOT OF THE TIME TO GET THE SAME DISTANCE OF OLDER CLUBS WITH A HIGHER COG. A standard golf shop, or fitting center will be able to do this. But if it'll mess up the performance or whatnot, I'm not messing with it. In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. I highly recommend that golfers get fitted before making a large purchase on golf clubs. Does bending your club 1 degree really matter? - Team Titleist With the high bounce level of the stock G30's, losing some of that bounce by bending it strong is no sweat, but plenty of clubs have so little bounce that bending them strong leaves virtually nothing left in the bounce department, but bounce really only helps if you strike the ball a little on the fat side. I will only add that I don't see what the benefit would be to strengthening loft. Adjusting 2 degrees strong will kill the bounce of your irons. Ball speed from the new irons is what is creating the distance. It is amazing how much higher/lower similar irons can perform, in terms of player level. Routinely, I notice longer than standard 85g shafts with these sets. Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110 However, even a degree difference can affect the direction where the ball might start out and can be the difference between you hitting the green, and you landing in a bunker! Ultimately, your answer is yes, you can do this. Hi Greyson, Bending your irons strong will reduce the bounce of the club. A 1 degree lie angle change, either flat or more upright, can cause a 4-yard difference either left or right of a straight target. Upload or insert images from URL. What are you trying to achieve? I take healthy beaver pelts with short irons, but the 2 iron is just a nip of grass. I have a 17-degree 4-wood, a 21-degree hybrid, a 26-degree hybrid, and a 29-degree iron as my longer (non-driver) clubs. We also see these players having gapping issues with a mid iron, not just 4 and 5 like your example, so adding loft achieves better gapping as well. Youll be amazed at the difference a properly fit set of irons can make to your game. Below, you'll see the results. One other thing is that some clubs are designed from the factory strong lofted to begin with Taylor Made GI irons are a good example of this. Will keep that in mind from now on, It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther,. The drop off in make percentage from 3-6 feet and 6-9 feet is huge. DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM. Equipment counts courtesy of Darrell Survey. The most common complaint I hear from golfers looking for new irons is that all the lofts are jacked strong. If someone is playing an iron set, for instance, from the late 1990s or earlier they will most likely find their irons to be 2-to-3 degrees weaker than todays game-improvement irons, and even some players irons. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. Guaranteed that if you looked at your ball speed it was dramatically higher. The club was designed and built with certain characteristics. A good tune-up is a good tune-up regardless of the final loft gaps. Learn how your comment data is processed. Golfers can see their spin rate drop thousands of RPMs from the rough (depending on the rough and type of lie), so being able to keep their shots in the air with enough spin to stop the ball on the green can be a huge part of helping them shoot lower scores.
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