Between that, some other info on other forums, Winchester's data for a lead flat point, and numbers from loaddata.com, I think I have some to start with. A revolver shooting .38 SPL only requires the power of your finger to make it fire and can thus be loaded with ammo that is extremely mild or hotter than hot. The Pistol a Smith and Wesson model 27-2 The goal is two fold. Is it more bulky? These were one each in .45 ACP, .38 Special, and 9mm. I stopped handloading around 1985, so Im not certain how much technology has changed in that area, but in general it sounds like our experiences are similar. I just got some clays which I heard was very clean burning compare to bullseye. My J frame S&Ws are all older models, and came with the small grips that are still on some models. It'll look funky, but it will shoot. 110gr JHP! You can always back off to the .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Mag if you choose to. I have the shrouded hammer version, the 638, and have been wary of training much with it because of its aluminum frame. I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. Be careful about published sources (and doubly so about internet sources), regarding maximum loads for the 38 special. To many shooters, .45 ACP means 230-grain hardball at 830 fps. Josh Wayner is a Michigan native, active competitor, Grand Valley State University alumni, troublemaker, and fiction author. I will always love the 38 SPL (never cared much for 357 Mag), but that 3 seven shot Charter with both 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Mag is truly the bees knees. I wish Id had a commercial version of this load in my ammo allocation when we were tasked with getting classes of students up to special operations standards with the issue custom 1911s. In terms of the best stopping power for .38 Special, I personally like 150 grain full wadcutters or 158 grain hollowpoint semi-wadcutters. Load it using wadcutter specs, and seat the bullet flush, like a wadcutter. Have you all found different seat depths to work better than what's in the manual? Starting being near 3gr - ish. You can post now and register later. Only the Model 60 sometimes have factory installed grips that are not worthless. Also internet references 2009, Copyright. I thought about trying 2.5 gr. Do not use anything but light loads and lead bullets in these older revolvers. hebyta I just dont like practicing with it. Enter to win an FN FAL Rifle. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Jacketed bullets are legal for DR, as long as they are 158 grain round nose or semi-wadcutter. Thinking of using it in NRA Action pistol or PPC. (Inceptor) Diameter: 0.357" Powder: CFE Pistol (Hodgdon) Primer: WIN WSP Case: WIN Trim Length: 1.145" C.O.L. Powder coating. For 3 that actually doesnt kick too badly. Does anyone have experience with loading WST for 125 gr plates bullets or a place to start the research/testing? I dont own anything in .38 special yet, but I have plans to buy a .357 magnum revolver in near future, so I already reloaded couple thousands of rounds in .38 and .357. The .38 ammo is more common to find than the .44 ammo, so that is a big reason to reload the .44. BrianEnos.com have been factored in, but Looks like starting with roughly 4.2 of W231. Some use powders dispersed in liquids, some use electrostatic guns to spray dry powder on their bullets. Using bullets from Hornady HP-XTP, Hornady HP-XTP or FP-XTP, Hornady FP-Cowboy, Hornady HBWC, Hornady SWC-HP, SWC or LRN. I like Bullseye in the 38 Special, and it was a consistent performer with the 125 grain bullets. That revolver is aluminum and cannot handle the pressure of 9MM. Think a lot of people would find that a .44 special or .45 Colt, in a decent revolver, a viable alternate to a pistol. This load is in the general velocity bracket with most generic or bulk box 115-grain loads and zings over my chronograph at 1,125 to 1,140 fps from a Glock 17, depending on bullet style. Posted March 19, 2015. However, after consulting my several different manuals, 3.5 seems to be a border line max load. I carry 38 /357 every day have used them in real world shootings. The Speer #8 lists a max of 7.5 grs Unique with a 125 gr Jacketed SP This would be for plinking for my wife's ~3" Rossi, so something light and fun to shoot would be great.All three of those powders have published load data for that weight bullet in .38 Special.All three of those powders have published load data for that weight bullet in .38 . Of course, these will be used in a revolver. I found the plated wadcutters to have NO accuracy. I wanted a good carry gun that was light and reliable, so I decided that the .38 would fit and I just went with it. I'm going to start with 3.8 grains. There are so many new powders today, its hard to keep up. The average street punk today has more firepower than the Russian Army did in WWII and trying to re-load a revolver in a fire fight is the best way to commit suicide that I could ever think of. Send the cylinder out to get cut for moon clips and adapted to 9mm, so you can shoot both 38/357/9mm and use all on moon clips. THAT TIME IS BETTER SPENT LEARNING HOW TO SHOOT THE REVOLVER IN THE RAPID FIRE PORTION. Although the .357 cylinders are the same length so they can be timed to a 642. The SP101 is far more comfortable to shoot but not so much fun to carry. .38 Special Chronograph Test | Perfect Union It is just a guide and the reason you should start under these charges and work up. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. With the powders you listed I would try Bullseye, 231, and Unique in that order. I have some W231 that I use for my .38 super. Classics go well together: circa 1909 S&W .38 Special and traditional 148-grain wadcutter load of 2.7 grains of Bullseye. The load you use will be up to your gun. Enough that the range Officer at my range recognized them because the muzzle blast made a distinctive cat whisker pattern at 8 and 10, and 2 and 4 o clock. I carry my M642 extensively, but I only shoot it occasionally because it is a snappy little b!tch with standard loads. Wes, SASS Wire rules prohibit posting specific load data on the forum, but it can be passed along via private message or email. When I finally took the plunge and started handloading (FIRST SHOTS WITH HANDLOADING: How Hard Can It Be? Generally, I'm looking for a load that produces accuracy from approx. Yes, I had no issues with the 38 SPL, but the 32 is just more FUN- especially when I get seven shots of it in a revolver the size of J frame! Any discussion of Bullseye is incomplete without mentioning a few of the downsides. 38 spl.s. No benchrest, nothing but two shakey hands holding the pistol. I don't have a chronograph, but have considered picking one up. Thx so it seems like for the long line I need to get some sagged bullets. I load my 38 target ammo to 3.5 grainsand my self defense 38 to 3.8 grains, when using 158 grain bullets (and Bullseye). You will be, essentially, making 38 Short Colt. The .38 Special is the most popular of all centerfire revolver cartridges. And yes I appreciate them for a hunting gun because of their fine accuracy and find trigger pulls (older classic guns). Very little recoil, and grouped acceptably out to 15 yards or so. 38 special load question - Bullseye Forum The more serious concern for some loaders is that the small charges of fast-burning powder take up little room in the case, making it possible to double charge a cartridge and exceed safe pressure. New to Reloading-Unique powder recipes for .38 special Even at hot .44 mag velocities my Super Redhawk has shiny bore with zero leading. A little shopping around might do better, as would casting the lead bullets. So I expect recoil would be substantial and not very target-ish. Click there and go to the load data lookup section . You trade a little less speed for a little more mass but at snubnose velocities I really think the standard 158 grain slug gives the best penetration. Bullseye is one of the oldest smokeless pistol powders and still one of the most popular. Totally agree. People who prepare usually tend to focus on the survival basics: security/self-defense, water, food, first aid, sanitation/hygiene, knowing when to get out and when to stay put. Anyone else using Bullseye for .38 Spl - Taurus Firearm Forum The bullets are seated flush in the case. SWC, 160 gr. Depends on what kind of load you're after. Also, too light loads don't allow the bullet to seal the gases causing problems. Winchester's 231 or WSL are also good powders for the .38 special. These bullets shot to point of aim in modern S&W snubbies, but the older M10-5 was regulated with 158 grain bullets and 125's shoot low. (For those who would. The floor does not apply for PPC, or the equivalent match for Action Pistol. I can get away with using it as cast w/ alox. Recoil is subjective and I feel no difference between that and an 750-775 fps load. It would seem that a 125 grain GDHP is of the same weight and would have a similar profile to what you want to use. I get 1000 fps with this load. Thats a pretty clear explanation and comparison of the NEEDS of the strength of the chamber for each caliber. At 25 you can get away with a lighter load. SWC+GC, SASS# 85224. That one Ill keep. Anything goes with bullets. 148-grain wadcutter brings accuracy that begs the shooter to test their limits. Ive tried full metal jacket and the Hornady Action Pistol (HAP) match hollow point in this load, and both ranged from good to great in my nines. The majority of my shooting with .38 has taken place with soft lead bullets. Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue. 1.455 in. Modern .38 spl std HP load is more than enough, dont over think it. This is my plink load for the kids. Good job on you! Or does the CMP make the rules for DR, and the NRA admins it? I just bought some 158 gr SWC bullets that are pure lead. In half a dozen different sixguns, it ranged from accurate to spectacular. 110gr JHP! IF YOU ARE USING SWAGED 158GR BULLETS 3.1 WILL WORK, IF USING HARD CAST 3.3 IS NEEDED. Load cut these cards at five yards out of this Model 15. So I'd think you should find a decent load for short line at about 700 Fps and for the long line at about 800. I have done it with 38 special and 44 Mag, only to have a lead coated bore that looked like a rusty old drain pipe. If you can follow simple instructions, you can safely load this cartridge. Reading the "WARNING" on the site, it states to not exceed the loads published and to start 10% below the loads shown and work up from there. Reloading The .38 Smith & Wesson - Reload Ammo Im still new to reloading, having done 2500 38 spl with bullseye. Speer shows 3.9 to 4.5 grains for a double end lead wadcutter but I'm thinking that may be a little strong for a plated bullet. 32 H&R Mag 21,000 I dont see much conversation on these specifics but I think Its all about the size of the explosion in the chamber. WST is a good powder for a very specialized load. Softer alloys of lead are just easier on the machinery. Use the lead bullet loads with the plated and you will be fine. Your experience is definitely motivation for me to give my J-frame more range time! 38 Special Load Data.. - Intoku.net - YUMPU I really enjoy Trail Boss and use it extensively for plain lead and plated bullets. This represents a great start, and if thats all you do, youll still be far better off than the majority of the population. The Bullseye powder pushed five into two inches flat for another 1911 that is typically a four-inch gun. AA#2 is about the same burn rate, but burns much cleaner with less smoke in my guns. My Hornady book says for 158 gr L-SWC, Unique powder, CCI magnum primer the minimum listed (not sure if that's absolute minimum) is 4.3 and maximum is 4.7. Most people have one general power level for their semi-autos due to the fact that the guns wont function with ammo thats not energetic enough to cycle the slide. I'd rather shoot my .45 then. swatmag.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. This gun now wears factory synthetic grips which are decent but could use more girth behind the trigger guard. WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets, Re: WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets. Interestingly, I had pistols that would shoot one well and the other impressively, but have not yet had one pistol do magic with both. Red Dot 38 Special - Gunloads.com (Patrick Sweeney photo) September 15, 2021 By Michelle Hamilton, Field Editor. WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets - Bullseye Forum Initially I shot them out of my Dads prized Smith & Wesson 686 and learned a great deal about double-action shooting and what a truly accurate handgun can do with a wadcutter. I'm asking the above questions because I don't want to run too hot of a load, but wasn't sure if it was ok to drop down below 2.8 as far as 2.5. I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. Bullseye is one of the oldest smokeless pistol powders and still one of the most popular. Powder Bul Weight C.O.L. Midway has it in stock. I buy 158 SWCHP all the time.my main bullet. Wadcutters are tailor made for lightweight snubbie practice, allowing shooters to enjoy shooting the pocket guns. Also compared a S&W 638 to the S&W 36. Forget about it. Since we are working with a gun that doesnt have a magazine, we can afford to mess with this dimension at will. .38 Special 148 Lead DEWC w/Bullseye smokey load | 1911Forum (bullseyeforum.net). Maybe its just my age, but I may never shoot a 38 again after discovering the 32. These are light and easy to shoot. Testing out some bullseye with 125 berry's bullets.. 41 Rem Mag 35,000 Most notably the lighter weight bullets. Proof of concept with .38 first, then on to 9mm where we have to actually cycle a slide but I think Ive got that problem solved. Has anyone loaded 38 special with these compoments? There is one good reason to use WST. These are put into a large hydraulic press and extruded into a continuous coil of wire. less to start.) Reloading Data .38 Special (Alliant Data) Metallic - Load Data Load it like Trail Boss. .38 special has got to be one of the best calibers there is . Plated bullets are to be loaded as lead bullets. Bullet seating depth is very forgiving. 38 Special Pet Loads - 24hourcampfire The 38 Special Ball round was designed a long time ago to comply with specifications laid down for ammo that was : 1) Compliant with the Hague Accords of 1907 in regard to "unnecessarily" injurious ammunition. If I get to see him shoot those loads, it would be worth the price of a new keyboard! 44 Rem Mag 36,000. All three of those powders have published load data for that weight bullet in .38 Special. These have a good profile- longer at the top where the middle finger rides, and shorter where the pinkie rests. That little 9 oz. I dunno. * Prefer to use the CT model 305 laser grips in lieu of S&W grips. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=1, I also have the Berry's 125gr plated flat point bullet and I am trying to find a min and max load with unique powder. Like Wobbly. 38 special 125 grain load data unique - The Geocaching Junkie 5.0 gr unique with berry's 125gr = .38 Special squibs (solved - AR-15 Since it hit the market 103 years ago, it has been a staple for most handloaders and the backbone of most accuracy loads in the popular calibers. Ive been loading 158gr FMJ with Titegroup and the only problem Ive had is getting the seating depth right after the die locknut slipped. Loading 38 special for best accuracy - Revolver Forum - Brian Enos's 38 Special Loads for Bullseye 5 are good choices. I bought a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull last year ahead of a hunt up in Wyoming. Its hard to find those swaged SWCs and hollow point bullets anyone; it seems everyone is only interested in hard cast for velocity and penetration. 9.) Alliant listed 3.6 gr Bullseye as maximum (15000 psi) in 38 Special and 3.8 as max in 38 Special PLUS P (17000 psi) with 158 LSWC bullets. .38 Special +P (Alliant Reloaders Guide) Warning! Many people tend to poo-poo .38 Special (standard pressure) for self-defense as being somehow underpowered. No offense sir but those charges look low for Unique. This load chugs downrange at 750 feet each second and functions standard recoil springs with no issue. You have never indicated what barrel length or brand or frame size you may be using these in. )Lastly, the .38 SPL has a very large following and materials can be had readily. 38 Special, all bullet weights Bullet Powder Weight Powder Velocity OAL Primer Source 110gr JHP! Recoil is mild enough that for many years it was the golden choice for the next introductory step for young or new shooters after rimfire. : 1,266 1,472 Press. Disclaimer, I own or owned all the super calibers out there except the casull, theyre all fun and quite useful in some scenarios, but dont discount the old timer. On my J frame S&W without the CT #305 Laser Grips, I swapped out to a Hoque set. I reached an interesting number the other day. Anyone know where I can download a chart where all the powders burning rates (regardless of manufacturer) is listed. But still nothing under 3.5". Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets. Note: More and more test are conducted with all rounds fired with powder UP against the primer for each shot, or DOWN on the bullet for each shot, then gently bring to horizontal to shoot. That's usually +P power level in .38 Special. load is 4.4 grains for 38 special and 5.0 grains is a +P load. I, like Spartacus, find the SAAMI recommendations an interesting spec for comparative purposes. The mention of a Lee Loader somewhere above took me back to the good-old days. "Berry's Superior Plated Bullets are the finest bonded copper-jacketed bullets available today.." ?. The 919 case is tapered and therefore wider at the base than the .38 special is. Berry says load plated bullets to mid-range jacketed bullets of same profile and weight or equal to hard cast. When I finally got my hands on a pound of Bullseye, I naturally started with some of these loads. I have often thought about reloading .357 brass to .38 special velocities to get around that, but have just never decided to actually do it. IT'S A COMBINATION TAPER AND ROLL CRIMP. i had the same issues you did when i was trying to load for my DR revolver 14-3. to light of power had a soft recoil but ungodly bad accuracy. All right are Reserved Reload Ammo, Reloading The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), hi=849 lo=728 ES=122 (powder up and down), hi=821 lo=684 ES=137 (powder up and down), hi=815 lo=637 ES=178 (powder in normal positions), hi=714 lo=549 ES=165 (powder up and down), hi=758 lo=693 ES=65 (powder up and down)(DO NOT USE LESS), Hi=886, Lo=861, ES=25 (This is a Carolina Cast bullet SWC-great cowboy load), hi=859 lo=743 ES=116 *(my personal medium load), hi=875 lo=685 ES=190.2(powder up and down), hi=710 lo=497 ES=213 (powder up and down), hi=791 lo=625 ES=166 (Powder up and down), hi=785 lo=670 ES=115 (powder up and down), hi=801, low=766 ES=35.32 in Contender 14 bbl. I could knock out a pretty substantial chunk of my shooting needs with only these three loads. Even slower powders may provide more consistent speeds and will be tested in the future (No. I'd imagine I'm not the first person to use this load, but I have found it is a very sooty/smokey load. more weight than the similar size CA .44 Bulldog, were available, a lot more people would also like the .44 spl. Bullseye and NRA Distinguished Revolver Yeah no. When I finally nabbed my own canisters of Bullseye, the first load I spun up was 2.7 grains under Hornadys hollow-base wadcutters. Both have fed 100% in a variety of pistols and have shot very well. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. This produces about 550-650fps from a 1 7/8 barrel and feels like shooting a very powerful .22LR. Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense. 9 mm, .40 sw, 45 acp, .44 mag. So, I'm guessing the pressure curve isn't as severe as some of the faster burners. This 1911 halved its normal so-so accuracy with 200-grain Hornady C/T SWC, shooting this nice two-inch group. The cases are large enough that they can be easily manipulated by inexperienced hands and yet small enough to not require much force in the sizing stage. So . Interesting. .38 brass isnt as common as 9, .40, or .45 brass at the range, but of all the revolver brass you can find its the most plentiful. That sounds. 358430 (195 grain) round nose bullet that was used in the old 200 grain police loads as there is always interest in these. Not sure how that translates to Bullseye powder. All newly manufactured .38 Special revolvers must be proof tested to the same higher proof . The beauty of shooting a .38 is that you can easily practice at the ranges you'd fight at using basically any cheap bullet at minimal expense. There seems to be a dearth of information using WST powder for the 38 Spl cartridge. They are low because of swaged bullets. is so simple. . 3.7gr WST with Zero 158 SWC did the job for me. Extremely light loads for 38 Special revolver - The Firearms Forum 38 special reloaders | The Firearms Forum . What are YOU shooting? A significant difference in speeds is usually noted. Power Pistols works well in short auto cartridges and higher pressure cartridges but no so well with a 158 grain bullets in 38 Special. 3.) it seems awful confusing, but with time you will be able to interpolate the published data into something that will give you good starting points to work up your loads. Start conservative if you wish. Like the author said, I consider it a garbage disposal round as you can load it with almost anything with good results. Handload: 158 grain round nose lead /3.8 grains Bullseye MV 775 fps ME 210 ft./lbs. I'm looking for some recipes for 38 special for a 125 grain copper plated (like Berry's) flat point bullet using Unique, Bullseye, or W231. Good shootin! I picked some up from my local Scheels yesterday. defensive ammo. If youre recoil averse (and dont have a disability of some kind), its because you havent shot it enough. .38 Special Bullseye/148gr Berrys wadcutter???? - 24hourcampfire Agree Problem with the J frame S&W is the grips. Honestly, plated bullets won't give you the level of accuracy needed for bullseye competition, even at 25 yards. I agree, an airweight has snappy recoil. Great gun. 38 Special Loads - Bullseye Forum Very forgiving with a straight wall case, and tons of bullet variety. I am loath to shoot several cylinders of standard pressure/velocity .38 Special 125 grain bullets out of a Smith and Wesson Model 642 revolver (or similar). Similarly on drills with set times such as firing five shots in five seconds onto a bull at ten yards, the Bullseye load allows a little more time per shot to take advantage of a great 1911 trigger and lets the shooter nearly push shots into the same hole. I carried a lightly customized 4 inch heavy barrel model 10 for years, with a black cerakote job. I have used everything from simple lead to the most advanced machined copper bullets and found them all to be extraordinarily easy to load and shoot. Compac for my little finger to wrap around under the butt. Insufficient crimping ) ARCHIVED. Hornady also has load data for the 110-grain .357 XTP for the lower-pressure .38 Automatic. Ive been shooting them for 50 years. RN, 160 gr. Id pay at least a dollar to see it. If you're looking for a real light load that's easy to shoot, I'd just use WW's data for the W231 with a 125 gr. Ethan Johns is a military professional with worldwide experience in specialized units. A GI surplus 1911 that puts most loads into dinner-plate sized groups cut 3.8 inches with the classic recipewhich is probably the only time Ive gotten excited about an almost four-inch group! Here's what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says for cast 125g flatpoint for 38 in the powders you mentioned. Main issue is that the .44 spl. Min Charge Max Charge Optimal Charge Bullet Make Bullet Type Primer Notes; Hodgdon - 700-X: 125 gr. Years back, for indoor matches I teamed the heavier S&W Model 28 with 3.4 grains of the same powder and bullet in . As an old bullseye guy I've stuck with Bullseye powder for almost 30yearsusing lead bullets. My more serious RN is the 358311 that drops @150 gr. If there is a search function for these forums (didn't see one) I'd be happy to use that too Go to the Alliant website and find the data for Unique and Bullseye. The plated bullets feed nicely through my bullet feeder. I started reloading 38 special as my first cartridge 8 years ago when I was 22, soooo.I have an old mans soul? document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Pick up any current gun magazine and youll be inundated with images of sexy black rifles. i use a Lee mold 150 round nose with 4 grains of bullseye crimped into the crimp groove of the bullet. 125: 125: 130: 135: 140: 140: 146: 148: 158: 158: 158: 170 _____ Quick Links Home Load Data Bullet Points: BE SURE TO CHECK OUT & FOLLOW MY INSTAGRAM FEED CONNECT WITH THE 1895GUNNER.COM COMMUNITY . The upside of the grainage is that the small charges mean more loaded rounds per pound of powderhelpful since Bullseye can take a while to reacquire once the container is empty. I'm new to reloading, starting off with a single stage Lee press reloading .38 special and .357 magnum with Lee's 4 die carbide set.
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